I think "rights" must include contingent rights — those that have not yet been upheld by a court. Those rights are surely the correlative of someone else's obligations — in this case the government's — as you will remember if you took the jurisprudence paper and had to read Hohfeld.
And I don't accept that lawyers make new law. They may initiate the law-making process. But lawyers are powerless unless they can persuade the courts to find in their favour.
Many thanks for running with the debate, Joshua. I am a regular reader of your column at rozenberg.substack.com and heartily recommend it to my readers.
I didn't take the jurisprudence paper at university. It wasn't an option on the Mathematics degree, which I read whilst DP was studying law.
I am not sure whether your second paragraph (re rights) is intended to disagree with me or not. I certainly agree with what you say on the point and was conscious of it when I wrote what I did in the main piece. So, if there is an inconsistency between that belief and what I wrote, I am sadly missing it. (If you wish to point it out here, I promise to study it.)
On your point about lawyers not making the law, may I remind you that my piece started with a reference to judges before moving on to barristers. I concluded by saying that senior lawyers can make the law (ie judges) or at least reinterpret it (ie barristers identifying potentially new options for the court to decide upon).
Thanks for the mention, Simon.
I think "rights" must include contingent rights — those that have not yet been upheld by a court. Those rights are surely the correlative of someone else's obligations — in this case the government's — as you will remember if you took the jurisprudence paper and had to read Hohfeld.
And I don't accept that lawyers make new law. They may initiate the law-making process. But lawyers are powerless unless they can persuade the courts to find in their favour.
Joshua
Many thanks for running with the debate, Joshua. I am a regular reader of your column at rozenberg.substack.com and heartily recommend it to my readers.
I didn't take the jurisprudence paper at university. It wasn't an option on the Mathematics degree, which I read whilst DP was studying law.
I am not sure whether your second paragraph (re rights) is intended to disagree with me or not. I certainly agree with what you say on the point and was conscious of it when I wrote what I did in the main piece. So, if there is an inconsistency between that belief and what I wrote, I am sadly missing it. (If you wish to point it out here, I promise to study it.)
On your point about lawyers not making the law, may I remind you that my piece started with a reference to judges before moving on to barristers. I concluded by saying that senior lawyers can make the law (ie judges) or at least reinterpret it (ie barristers identifying potentially new options for the court to decide upon).
I think we agree more than we disagree. I’m happy to leave it there.